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South Kingstown School Committee Work Session Minutes
Tuesday, January 16, 2018
South Kingstown High School Cafeteria
215 Columbia Street
Wakefield, RI 02879
Attendees - voting members
Roland Benjamin - Chair
Stephen (Scott) Mueller - Vice Chair
Michelle Brousseau
Alycia Collins
Emily Cummiskey
Kate McMahon Macinanti
Raissa Mosher
Attendees - other
Kristen Stringfellow, Superintendent
Pauline Lisi, Assistant Superintendent
Maryanne Crawford, CFO
Robert Hendriks, Educational Legacy Planning
David DeQuattro RGB
Tracey Donnelly RGB
Robert Zarnetske, Town Manager
South Kingstown Town Council members (in audience)
Margaret Healy
Abel Collins
Bryant DaCruz
Joe Viele
Liz Gledhill
A. Call to Order
Roland Benjamin called the January 16, 2018 work session to order at 7:02 PM.
Robert Hendriks presented the four legacy options. A discussion ensued with the School Committee.
Mosher asked why grade 5 is listed in options at BRMS; is it being recommended only because of efficiency and economies of scale?
Hendriks-Yes, and also educationally, and it allows for the two school option D, and it gives more room at elementary option C.
Macinanti asked about HS traffic flow.
Hendriks -in all scenarios, the high school traffic flow needs to be addressed, and the whole building would be reoriented.
Collins-Do we provide transportation to SKIP families?
Stringfellow-Yes for students with special needs
Collins-Why is Wakefield identified for repurposing in three options?
Hendriks-the site, condition of the building, design of building, proximity to PDES.
Cummiskey asked about the costs and savings.
Hendriks-that is on the next slides.
Mosher asked when we would have a conversation about re-districting, because that is an important part of the decision.
Hendriks-This wouldn't happen for five years. Elementary age kids will not be in the same homes. There are too many unknowns this far out. Redistricting committee can form in approximately three years.
Mosher asked for big idea redistricting concepts, which Robert Hendriks agreed to provide.
Benjamin comment-In the future, we will be able to tell kids entering kindergarten where they will definitely go to school K-12; that is important. Repurposing can offset cost of building.
Gledhill-Can repurposing mean sell?
Robert Hendriks shared some ideas for repurposing: sell, lease, storage, raze the building, use for administration (people from PDES and SKHS would need to be relocated), permanent School Committee meeting space, PD center for teachers, town needs, etc. The only building that can't be sold is CCMS, because it houses the main field space. It needs locker rooms.
South Road is a building you can sell because it is not a building you would ever want to re-open. WES is such a nice central location that you may want to have a committee to decide how to repurpose to honor its legacy and its place in the middle of the community.
Robert Hendriks reviewed costs and savings.
Collins-By operationally do you mean annual savings?
Hendriks- It will be a one-time saving on budget, and then you will have those savings in perpetuity.
DaCruz-Are we talking about today's dollars?
Hendriks-Today’s dollars operationally, but building costs have escalation included.
Mueller-One of the options is to move to larger elementary schools, 500-600, what is best practice?
Hendriks-Best practice depends on the teacher in the classroom, the leader in the building, the student to adult ratio; the enlargement and redesign of PDES and MES described here would be best practice.
Gledhill-Is deferred maintenance capital accounted for here?
Hendriks-No, because it is cost avoidance; we can get that to you.
Collins-Can you break down the operational?
Hendriks-Yes, we can get that to you, and you can choose to not save as much and re-deploy.
Cummiskey-In closing some buildings, you eliminate custodians, but if you add more space to another building, you may need more custodians; is that accounted for here?
Hendriks-Yes.
Cummiskey-I am concerned that a school nurse teacher now responsible for 200-300 kids cannot service 500 kids.
Cummiskey-I am sort of surprised that we don't see CCMS repurposed as something else. Was that considered?
Hendriks-100,000 sq. ft. school is not appropriate for an elementary school because of scale. We would need to do a lot of renovation. It is one of your most troubled buildings, useful life, accessibility. For many reasons CCMS is not where you want to invest your money. It has more sq. footage than three elementary schools. There is a cost to keeping one square foot of building open (custodial/cleaning, deferred maintenance, energy savings). You have taken 100K off line, and it saves you taking elementary schools off line. CCMS also does not have a community. CCMS is one of the lowest rated buildings on the RIDE Jacobs report.
RIDE is very serious about newer and fewer. Taking 100,000 sq. ft. of CCMS offline may assure that we will have RIDE’s support.
DaCruz-There is a significant difference between a 35% reimbursement rate from the state and 55% reimbursement. Hypothetically, if we went with option D, rather than investing into refurbishment of 50% of the high school, should we consider leveling CCMS and building a new HS there?
Hendriks-Building a new high school is the most expensive option. It would cost in excess of 100 million dollars just for that school. It’s not that you cannot do that. It would be an extreme cost. I'm not sure if CCMS would be an appropriate site. The difference between building a high school and building an elementary school is dramatic. This building (SKHS) has good bones and great potential. The fact that it is not near the athletic fields is not great. I'd rather you do 75% of this facility spending 50 million instead of 100 million. I'm not sure it is really worth it to start over. The spine of this building right here (from the cafeteria to the library to the arts wing) is very exciting. You need a secure entry into the facility and you need to relocate all core programs here, not in Hazard and outside buildings.
DaCruz-My worry from a real estate perspective is that costs can escalate higher in an existing building. In building new, you can control the costs more.
Mosher-The location of the high school is important. Right now, it is centrally located in the town. It is walkable. We have just established all of these wonderful pathways, career business partnerships, and internship opportunities. If students do not have their own transportation, they can walk or take the bus to many businesses. The locale of CCMS is not ideal. I would be concerned that if we moved the high school, there would be no opportunity for students to access those businesses.
Robert Hendriks will provide a list of avoided capital costs for each option.
Mueller-Be careful with avoided costs, for example some parking lot repairs may still be needed.
Hendriks-That is the presentation of options, and the next step is for the community to fully vet the options at the second community summit.
1. Nicole Mulanaphy-asked specifics about repurposing. She asked what the best practice configuration of a middle school is. 5-8 or 6-8.
Hendriks-There are no definitive studies on grade configuration. The sweet spot is typically 6-8. However, you can have a best practice 5-8 if you design it right. If you were to include grade 5 in the middle school, we would advocate for some separation of grade 5 from grade 8, and more kid-friendly spaces and a recess yard and playground. We would look to build something new for them (grade 5 and 6 students). There was conversation that middle school sizes are all across the board in RI, with most being 6-8 and 5-8, but some are 4-8, and others are 7-8.
Robert Hendriks spoke of another district he is working in where the decision now is whether to include grade 5 with K-4 or into the high school 6-12. If you design it right, you can make it right and mitigate any negative impact. We would build and design deliberately.
2. Vanessa Paneccia-asked how SKIP students added to the elementary school would impact pick up and drop off.
Kristen Stringfellow responded that in any SKIP scenario, the Special Education Director by law would design the special education pre-school program in the best interest of students. The transportation coordinator and principal would develop a new traffic plan for the school that included a plan for pedestrian traffic, mini bus traffic, car traffic and bus traffic.
Cummiskey commented that she would like to see us not move SKIP twice.
Benjamin reminded that the SKIP discussion would take place offline in the budget work session.
Collins commented that there is no rush to move SKIP at the cost of the quality of the program.
3. Nicole Mulanaphy asked if moving SKIP students to elementary would be difficult on students in outdoor play with less peers.
Kristen Stringfellow will ask Special Education Director Teresa Eagan to attend the budget work session to answer questions about the relocation of SKIP.
4. Chris Hubbard-Which one of these four options is in the best interest of students?
Robert Hendriks explained they are all best practice. The SK School Committee needs to determine which one is in the best interest of SK, as it is unique. Likely one or two preferred options will emerge. If this community determines that keeping a neighborhood school is important, I would respect that. That is an investment, however, and not as efficient operationally, so in that option you would have less opportunity to invest money in staffing and educational programs for students, because you would be investing in keeping more buildings clean, online, and in good repair.
5. April Ewing asked if we should raze CCMS, close all four elementary schools, and put one large central elementary school on that site.
Hendriks-That scenario significantly does not match our vision. A PK-5 facility would need to house about 1300 students. I'm not even sure if that site could sustain it. PK-6 would be 1500 kids if we were to avoid building on Broad Rock. This is a 65 square mile school district; students would need to be on the bus before 6 am. It is hard to fathom centralizing one elementary school in this size community.
6. Dave Palazzetti-You did a good job in a short time. These are reasonable options. If you were going to whittle it down, I would recommend keeping grade 5 in elementary. CCMS is by far in the worst condition. Raze that site for a large park, stadium, locker rooms, and other recreational activities.
Robert Hendriks will look into how much it would cost to raze CCMS.
7. Laura Roebuck-I would recommend K-5. If you are going to whittle down, please keep A and B on the table. She spoke about the potential to bring in new income by leveling CCMS, because the recreation center is constantly packed.
8. Gledhill-Just as important as cost is community buy-in. Did that weigh in your decision-making? What is the taxpayer willing to bear? If a building is not being closed, are community members willing to keep it open even at the operational costs? D is the most fiscally responsible choice; maybe they are willing to do that in some circumstance
Cummiskey commented on the need to continue to provide new programs that will help attract families and will make our district unique.
Benjamin-The time is right for building and renovating facilities. The Governor is pushing a 1 billion dollar plan for renovations. Only a few school systems will be ready to take advantage of that support, and SK is one of the few that are ready.
Nicole Mulanaphy-In Option D is there potential for growth?
Hendriks-You can always build for growth on PDES and MES. You will not be razing every building, so you will definitely still have inventory if needed. But remember, the demographic study indicated that there is not going to be any surge of enrollment.
Eric Schneider-This was a very thoughtful presentation. Under B, the assumption is that most students go to PDES. It might be helpful to see folks envisioning; parents would appreciate having that in the back of their heads.
Hendriks-We will do that.
Hendriks-Within the preferred option, the School Committee could say, for example...if we close Wakefield, we want all the kids from WES to go to PDES without displacing any PDES kids.
They could take an option and say we will only do that option if grade 5 is in elementary, etc.
Abel Collins-It seems like there is a lot of pressure from RIDE to go with D. It would be good if the School Committee could choose D and also send grade 5 back to the elementary school. That could be option E.
Hendriks-We could do that. That option was on there originally, and we took it off because we thought that the school community would not want a larger school, but it can be put back on. You could also separate PK and K into a different location if you wanted those two schools to be smaller.
Emily Totten-Two main elementary schools grades 1-5 with PK and K at a separate location is not what the community wanted; they did not want a one- or two-year grade span and transition.
Hendriks-I agree. Transitions equal trauma. If we really wanted to do an early childhood center, it should be PK-2.
Josh Daley- Are there any limitations to the sale of buildings?
Hendriks-There should be a disposition of real estate committee established by the School Committee as soon as the options are determined, and sales should be considered.
Josh Daley-What redistricting might look like would be valuable. What do we imagine the redistricting might look like? And, also, what might the school budget look like in six years?
Lisa Mellor-When you met with RIDE, were you able to suggest that busing be funded (in the funding formula).
Stringfellow-No, this meeting was with the facility representatives from RIDE. We have, however, advocated to RIDE and the General Assembly for the past nine years that transportation be included in the market basket for the funding formula, because it is mandated by law. I believe it should be included. I have no indication that it ever will be.
Mosher-I assume transportation is not factored into these numbers.
Hendriks-No.
Stringfellow-Similar to redistricting, that would not actually happen for three years. We need to be closer to the opening to predict transportation. Elementary families will be middle school families by then, middle school will be high school, etc.
Hendriks-We can try to guess some transportation scenarios.
Alycia Collins-It would be great to have a newly remodeled HS and an upgrade of buildings, but not if it came at the cost of laying off TAs and librarians.
Benjamin-In summary, Robert Hendriks will flesh out some operational costs, hypothetical redistricting, hypothetical transportation, housing aid, and capital deferment.
Benjamin to Zarnetske-What is a healthy asset investment for this level of spending, and what is the impact on individual taxpayers?
Robert Zarnetske-We will get that information to the Superintendent.
All options will be forwarded to the community to vet through the second Community Summit.
A. Adjourn work session
MSV (1) move to adjourn at 9:23 PM.
Motion made by: Stephen (Scott) Mueller
Seconded by: Michelle Brousseau
Vote: Unanimously Approved
Respectfully submitted,
Kristen Stringfellow